Lets face it. Caste is a reality.


Initially I was undecided about the issue of Government including Caste data in the Census but as I heard more and more of the debates around the issue, I became convinced that it is important if not vital that we do this asap.

I dont say this coz I care about Caste equations and other equations.

I support it simply coz Caste based reservation is although wrong but it sadly is here to stay. So when we are proving a proportion based qouta to the reserved classes, don’t we need to know the numbers first? How can we provide reservations today based on data of 1931.

Its only logical that to solve a problem you need to know all the figures related to it completely.

There is no point denying the existence of castes coz it is very much there. Open any matrimonial newspaper or site and you’ll know what I mean. People care more about the caste of the bride/groom rather than their compatibility with each other.

Therefore, ignoring caste in today’s India would be like a ostrich poking his head in the sand hoping the danger will pass away. But that doesnt happen, does it?

The move is a win win situation for all coz …….well, the truth never hurts.

If the census says that the reserved castes are less then 50% of the whole population then the quota will have to be reduced, benefitting the general classes.

But if the census says that its more, even in that case it is good for the common people coz the qouta will go up. And hopefully the institutions will add more seats(like they did for the OBC qouta) and thus, reducing competition for the general people and also, more and more reserved seats will get converted to general category.
Although this isnt a very convincing argument in favor of the caste census but lesser competition in the general category isn’t really the reason behind this.

We need the caste census coz the problem of casteism cant be solved by ignoring it. It is time we face the problem head on. It is time to not act ignorant.It is time for the real facts to come out. It is time.

And for all those who say that our founding fathers chose to never let this happen in independent India coz they wanted a casteless India. So, even we shouldnt. All that I can say is that, they didnt even want to have qouta for more than 15 years. But it is still there. Casteless India is a near impossibility. The circumstances of today are not the same as those of 1947.

Times have changed and so should our system. Coz, ‘Ignorance is bliss’ no longer. And esp. true for the growing casteism.

  • Aman

    Hey Aditya , I expected something better from you. If the coming generation thinks this way, I see no future for this country or humanity in general.
    You say that the problem can’t be solved by ignoring it then how do we get rid of this ? Doing census and give our semi-literate politicians more ammunitions to divide this country. Coz’ if i take cue from the reasons that u’ve provided to justify caste-census then its high time that we legalise – Taking Drugs, alcohol, cigs, prostitution etc etc. Kindly ask your parents how much mayhem was caused after Mandal Commission.
    Brother, there are two kinds of acceptance – Active & Passive and sadly you have accepted this passively.
    Why can’t the criteria for reservations be – Economic?

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      First of all thanks for the comment and I’ll answer it in detail.

      I’d like to clear few things first. I believe that “alcohol, cigs, prostitution” should be legalized(at least the first two are). If an individual doesn’t like he or she can choose not to smoke or drink. And at the same time for some one who wants to do the following, he or she should allowed to. How can you or me or the society force our perception on someone else and force their choices? Everyone has a right to chose their actions in life. and be responsible for them.

      Census isn’t dividing the country, caste is. Without addressing the problem head on we are not solving anything. Caste will still be there. It will keep dividing the country slowly and silently. But if we have to fight it we have to understand the magnitude of the problem and hence, the census.

      I asked my parents and they say that it wasn’t coz of census but coz of caste based reservations. How is caste based reservation a reason against caste census? At best, our reservation system will become in sync with the times coz we will have the latest data. Nothing more, coz as it is SC has imposed the upper limit for quota.

      I have accepted that castes exist. I haven’t excepted that castes should be diving my India. That’s the problem.

      Economic reservations can surely be a criteria in fact that is how it should be. But again, thats an issue for caste based reservation and not caste census.

      • Aman

        1. Bro am sorry for the typo, actually i meant caste-census as is evident from what i wrote.
        2. Regarding prostitution et al, i will only ask you one thing – Suppose there is a dead rat in your room and is stinking like anything, what would you do , get some good room-freshners and spray or instead try to find the dead rat and throw it away!! And I think this goes for caste-reservation as well.
        Regarding cig, alcohol & prostitution, Brother freedom is ok but it should be accompained with discipline coz’ Freedom without discipline is like a country without border
        3.I think you are quite matured to understand the rationale behind caste-census i.e. why these politicians are asking for this !!
        4. Good that you have accepted that caste exists, but sadly this caste system is breaking the very fabric of our society as some politicians have championed the art of exploiting these issues.
        I want to reply u in detail but am running short of time.
        Shall get back to this site soon.

        • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

          1. I was talking about caste-census too :) Counting caste is not the reason why we are divided. We are divided coz castes exist.

          2. I haven’t really understood the example. What is the rat depicting in here? Prostitutes?
          I don’t deny the need for discipline. I am merely saying that if that has to happen it should be self-discipline and not imposed by some law or some fatwa.
          Just curious, why do countries need a border? Wouldn’t a borderless world be a word of equality? So its good na.

          3. I understand the reason why the Yadav clan is asking fro it. So, its good for them. Then how does that argument imply that it is bad for us? I understand that its hard to like politicians like them but I dont see a reason why I should oppose caste census just coz some politicians (that I am not really fond of) are in favor of?

          :)

          • Aman

            Hi there Aditya,
            sorry for replying late, was busy wid my work
            1.Why does casts exist? Bcoz’ we count them and give them imporatance. Say i invite you and some of your friends to my house for dinner and then i ask you guys to tell me ur caste. Wouldn’t that create a sort of division amongst you ?
            I think you have got my messsage!

            2. No brother the rat is not the prostitutes but the sick mentality that takes us to prostitutes.

            3.Brother, apply this border – logic with caste-census. I am sure you will understand why we don’t need caste-census

            4.Since you understand that why they want caste-census, then make your judgement that do we need to play hand-in-glove to them?

          • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

            :) No issue.

            1 a). I feel that its the other way around. Castes exist coz we give it importance all our lives for instance during marriage, job etc.

            1 b). I agree that it would. But isn’t that already happening? SC/ST/OBC is exactly that. So counting them isn’t doing anymore damage. In fact, it is arming us with useful data that we will need to fight the problem.

            2. Thats precisely my point. you think its sick but for someone who goes to prostitutes, its not. Personally, I would never do it and similarly every one should have the liberty to decide what’s good and bad for them. If they choose that its good for them. So be it. Its a matter of personal choice.

            3. Agreed. I also want a caste less India but I feel that the problem can’t be solved if we keep hiding it under the cloak of fake harmony. Castes exist, its a reality. Even in a place like Delhi.

            4. I cleared it before itself. I don’t support it coz they support it. They support it coz they want political mileage. I support it coz I feel that it would help us solve the problem later

          • http://twitter.com/deathinvain Manish Sagar

            Hey….
            Even though my reply would count as nothing I would still like to say a few words about your comments…

            1. You are under the impression that castes exist because we count them?? Well, just my opinion, I think that castes exist because WE CREATED THEM!!! Long ago, people who thought they were superior to others and had the power to change the thinking of people all around them, created castes. They taught their offsprings how to behave in the presence of different castes. We are offsprings of the previous generations and we have been taught the same stuff. It’s only when there were reforms and people started thinking beyond, did we manage to put aside caste differences in our daily way of living. Besides, as Aditya pointed out, the castes are being counted after almost 70 years!! Castes were here, and will be here for an indefinite period. There will be people who think they are superior and there will be castes. We can only hope to bring the discrimination down to it’s minimum level (god bless that is the case in future India).

            2. Okay so it’s the sick mentality which is the rat, eh? That means that kissing (on the lips i.e. smooch) which was also considered as a taboo among the earlier generation, should be banned, because that would also come under sick mentality for many people. Exactly as Aditya said, it’s your opinion that prostitution is sick, so keep it to yourself. Why should it be the case that others who are in favour of it, should not be allowed to participate in it, that too forcefully. I would like to give you an example. Suppose you are in school and the Principal and the governing body think that a child should jump from the 1st floor once a week and they label it as a part of a fitness program. Now you think, that it’s harmful and you could injure yourself badly by jumping from the first floor. So you oppose. And then you face severe consequences. In this example I am not pointing to a situation in which the governing body is the law and the child is prostitution. I am merely saying that there’s a clash of thoughts and one should not be forced to do what someone else wants, which is the case with drinking, smoking, prostitution, sexual orientation, et cetera.

            3. “4.Since you understand that why they want caste-census, then make your judgement that do we need to play hand-in-glove to them?

            Read more: http://www.adityakumarnayak.com/2010/05/lets-face-it-caste-is-reality.html#ixzz0qumu30CE
            Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives”

            Why do you assume that Aditya wants to play hand-in-glove to them? It is because he also supports caste-census just like the Yadav’s do? Could it not be the case where Aditya is trying to look past caste differences and root for caste-census because of a logical reason which could be a actually help eradicate castes?? Just because two people want the same thing, it doesn’t mean they have the same thoughts about it. A child may want a pair of scissors to play with them, but another might want it because he/she has a use for them.

            I, in no way, want to discourage your thoughts. I just want to point out flaws in your style of thinking and your thoughts….and believe me, it’s just my thought that your thoughts are flawed…
            😀 😀

  • Aman

    Hey Aditya , I expected something better from you. If the coming generation thinks this way, I see no future for this country or humanity in general.
    You say that the problem can't be solved by ignoring it then how do we get rid of this ? Doing census and give our semi-literate politicians more ammunitions to divide this country. Coz' if i take cue from the reasons that u've provided to justify caste-census then its high time that we legalise – Taking Drugs, alcohol, cigs, prostitution etc etc. Kindly ask your parents how much mayhem was caused after Mandal Commission.
    Brother, there are two kinds of acceptance – Active & Passive and sadly you have accepted this passively.
    Why can't the criteria for reservations be – Economic?

  • Aditya Kumar Nayak

    First of all thanks for the comment and I'll answer it in detail.

    I'd like to clear few things first. I believe that "alcohol, cigs, prostitution" should be legalized(at least the first two are). If an individual doesn't like he or she can choose not to smoke or drink. And at the same time for some one who wants to do the following, he or she should allowed to. How can you or me or the society force our perception on someone else and force their choices? Everyone has a right to chose their actions in life. and be responsible for them.

    Census isn't dividing the country, caste is. Without addressing the problem head on we are not solving anything. Caste will still be there. It will keep dividing the country slowly and silently. But if we have to fight it we have to understand the magnitude of the problem and hence, the census.

    I asked my parents and they say that it wasn't coz of census but coz of caste based reservations. How is caste based reservation a reason against caste census? At best, our reservation system will become in sync with the times coz we will have the latest data. Nothing more, coz as it is SC has imposed the upper limit for quota.

    I have accepted that castes exist. I haven't excepted that castes should be diving my India. That's the problem.

    Economic reservations can surely be a criteria in fact that is how it should be. But again, thats an issue for caste based reservation and not caste census.

  • Aman

    1. Bro am sorry for the typo, actually i meant caste-census as is evident from what i wrote.
    2. Regarding prostitution et al, i will only ask you one thing – Suppose there is a dead rat in your room and is stinking like anything, what would you do , get some good room-freshners and spray or instead try to find the dead rat and throw it away!! And I think this goes for caste-reservation as well.
    Regarding cig, alcohol & prostitution, Brother freedom is ok but it should be accompained with discipline coz' Freedom without discipline is like a country without border
    3.I think you are quite matured to understand the rationale behind caste-census i.e. why these politicians are asking for this !!
    4. Good that you have accepted that caste exists, but sadly this caste system is breaking the very fabric of our society as some politicians have championed the art of exploiting these issues.
    I want to reply u in detail but am running short of time.
    Shall get back to this site soon.

  • Aditya Kumar Nayak

    1. I was talking about caste-census too :) Counting caste is not the reason why we are divided. We are divided coz castes exist.

    2. I haven't really understood the example. What is the rat depicting in here? Prostitutes?
    I don't deny the need for discipline. I am merely saying that if that has to happen it should be self-discipline and not imposed by some law or some fatwa.
    Just curious, why do countries need a border? Wouldn't a borderless world be a word of equality? So its good na.

    3. I understand the reason why the Yadav clan is asking fro it. So, its good for them. Then how does that argument imply that it is bad for us? I understand that its hard to like politicians like them but I dont see a reason why I should oppose caste census just coz some politicians (that I am not really fond of) are in favor of?

    :)

  • Aman

    Hi there Aditya,
    sorry for replying late, was busy wid my work
    1.Why does casts exist? Bcoz' we count them and give them imporatance. Say i invite you and some of your friends to my house for dinner and then i ask you guys to tell me ur caste. Wouldn't that create a sort of division amongst you ?
    I think you have got my messsage!

    2. No brother the rat is not the prostitutes but the sick mentality that takes us to prostitutes.

    3.Brother, apply this border – logic with caste-census. I am sure you will understand why we don't need caste-census

    4.Since you understand that why they want caste-census, then make your judgement that do we need to play hand-in-glove to them?

  • Aditya Kumar Nayak

    :) No issue.

    1 a). I feel that its the other way around. Castes exist coz we give it importance all our lives for instance during marriage, job etc.

    1 b). I agree that it would. But isn't that already happening? SC/ST/OBC is exactly that. So counting them isn't doing anymore damage. In fact, it is arming us with useful data that we will need to fight the problem.

    2. Thats precisely my point. you think its sick but for someone who goes to prostitutes, its not. Personally, I would never do it and similarly every one should have the liberty to decide what's good and bad for them. If they choose that its good for them. So be it. Its a matter of personal choice.

    3. Agreed. I also want a caste less India but I feel that the problem can't be solved if we keep hiding it under the cloak of fake harmony. Castes exist, its a reality. Even in a place like Delhi.

    4. I cleared it before itself. I don't support it coz they support it. They support it coz they want political mileage. I support it coz I feel that it would help us solve the problem later

  • Manish Sagar

    Hey….
    Even though my reply would count as nothing I would still like to say a few words about your comments…

    1. You are under the impression that castes exist because we count them?? Well, just my opinion, I think that castes exist because WE CREATED THEM!!! Long ago, people who thought they were superior to others and had the power to change the thinking of people all around them, created castes. They taught their offsprings how to behave in the presence of different castes. We are offsprings of the previous generations and we have been taught the same stuff. It's only when there were reforms and people started thinking beyond, did we manage to put aside caste differences in our daily way of living. Besides, as Aditya pointed out, the castes are being counted after almost 70 years!! Castes were here, and will be here for an indefinite period. There will be people who think they are superior and there will be castes. We can only hope to bring the discrimination down to it's minimum level (god bless that is the case in future India).

    2. Okay so it's the sick mentality which is the rat, eh? That means that kissing (on the lips i.e. smooch) which was also considered as a taboo among the earlier generation, should be banned, because that would also come under sick mentality for many people. Exactly as Aditya said, it's your opinion that prostitution is sick, so keep it to yourself. Why should it be the case that others who are in favour of it, should not be allowed to participate in it, that too forcefully. I would like to give you an example. Suppose you are in school and the Principal and the governing body think that a child should jump from the 1st floor once a week and they label it as a part of a fitness program. Now you think, that it's harmful and you could injure yourself badly by jumping from the first floor. So you oppose. And then you face severe consequences. In this example I am not pointing to a situation in which the governing body is the law and the child is prostitution. I am merely saying that there's a clash of thoughts and one should not be forced to do what someone else wants, which is the case with drinking, smoking, prostitution, sexual orientation, et cetera.

    3. "4.Since you understand that why they want caste-census, then make your judgement that do we need to play hand-in-glove to them?

    Read more: http://www.adityakumarnayak.com/2010/05/lets-face-it-caste-is-reality.html#ixzz0qumu30CE
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives"

    Why do you assume that Aditya wants to play hand-in-glove to them? It is because he also supports caste-census just like the Yadav's do? Could it not be the case where Aditya is trying to look past caste differences and root for caste-census because of a logical reason which could be a actually help eradicate castes?? Just because two people want the same thing, it doesn't mean they have the same thoughts about it. A child may want a pair of scissors to play with them, but another might want it because he/she has a use for them.

    I, in no way, want to discourage your thoughts. I just want to point out flaws in your style of thinking and your thoughts….and believe me, it's just my thought that your thoughts are flawed…
    😀 😀