lokpal

5 Reasons why JanLokpal Bill is not the solution


I just want to clarify right from the start, I am against corruption as much as anyone else is. So, stop calling me a traitor and open your mind to accept that other sides to a problem can also exist.

So, lets start with

What will the Janlok Pal Bill do?

The idea is to establish a complaint redressal system which will be on top of the existing governance system of our country. It will cover the complete system i.e. from the lowest ranked official to the PM (under debate as of now) and so there will be a ‘anti-corruption’ officer who will ensure that the state officials are not corrupt.

PS: This is a very crude description of the idea so, don’t depend on it.:)

Why should we not support Jan Lokpal Bill?

  1. The problem is the complexity and the size of the state, Jan Lokpal just increases it

    What the bill will do is that it will make the system a lot more complex and increase the size of the state, while what we need are measures to reduce its size. The state is involved in things that it should not be. Cut out licensing, permits and stupid rules that the state imposes on us and no one will need to bribe any officials to get their work done.

  2. People bribe to circumnavigate rules, why create more?

    The reason corruption exists is coz people need to bypass rules to get their work done simply coz the officials wouldn’t let you work if you go by them. So why not just abolish them? Instead we are making more of them. So now, you can also be exploited by the lokpal and we will end up paying double the bribe for getting your work done. First to the government official, then to the ‘anti-corruption’ officer.

  3. If you have mass  support? Use it

    Honestly, I have my doubts but if people like Anna Hazare and Baba Ramdev are so popular, why don’t they ask their followers to stop paying bribes for the next one year. Not just that, they have many other leaders on board like Kiran Bedi and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. All these people have millions of followers some of who are also very influential people.

    Just this one step will go a long way in reducing corruption.

  4. Democracy can’t be undermined

    It’s the same reason why I have opposed the Telangana Movement before and I oppose Anna Hazare and Ramdev’s movements. You cant bully an elected parliament using undemocratic ways. They keep saying they have the whole nation with them, then why only 20,000 people turn up at Raj Ghat? Further more, if they have the huge support they claim why don’t you contest elections and then bring in the bill?

  5. JanlokPal will fail to curb corruption

    Jan Lokpal has been one of India’s largest movements in recent years that is built on common man’s anger against the power elite. And I have my reasons to believe that its not going to be the last. But if the Jan lokpal that this bill is going to establish fails at ending corruption as it is most likely to, the common man will again start believing that ‘India mein kuch nahin badalta’.

    Instead, lets focus on something constructive and something which will actually work. I don’t think Jan lokpal will and is just a waste of time and resources.

     

Link: Read Janlokpal Bill Online PDF

 

Here is an interesting video by Shantanu B on the issue, where he spoke about it at Orissa High Court

 

  • http://profiles.google.com/vj.menon93 vijay menon

    Well I definitely second your thoughts.
    In fact I just wrote an article along the same lines – Corruption: Aren’t WE the real problem?

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      Thanks for the comment. Can you drop the link?

      • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

        Thanks for the link. Nice post

  • http://twitter.com/Maneesh25 Manish Ghanbahadur

    Well the article is written well, but I see an anxiety in it and certainly no-confidence in either the Government and the Civil society. I would like to tell  you that the Jan “LokPal” version of the bill is definitely better than the Govt. “LokPal” draft.

    Corruption is such a malady to our democracy that, it would certainly take a lot of time before we could even think about ending this madness. At least Anna Hazare and team are trying to build up awareness and momentum to harvest the support of the masses who aren’t certainly aware of the their “say” in a democracy.

    Even Anna is of the view that this is not the only system that would defy corruption in its entirety. Many such systems and policies would be needed to put a check on this malady. By which he surely means that at least we have to start somewhere down the line, we cannot lay back and expect the Government to be that vibrant to tackle this issue.

    Its our (people’s) responsibility to do our bit support movements like this and create a vibrant Civil Society, which could be least expected out of us being the World’s largest democracy.

    Remember we can never leapfrog in issues like this, and well the support is not about numbers always, its about creating the awareness. Once aware of our social, economic and political rights the society will itself stand for such cases and a time will eventually come when we wouldn’t need a Leader in Anna Hazare or for that matter Ramdev Baba to enlighten us with issues to be confronted by us and only us.

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      Hi Manish, thanks for the comment. You have rightly said that I don’t trust the government or the civil society. And I don’t have a reason to trust them coz they have been making a fool of us for soo long.

      Also, you are right in saying that Anna’s movement is making the common people aware of their rights but I don’t agree that this is a step in the right direction. We are doing the opposite of what we should be doing. We are increasing the size of the government while we should be reducing it

  • http://ruhisonal.wordpress.com/ Ruhi

    I agree with your points. I think that corruption is a wide phenomenon, and no bill/law can actually cure it. The government’s draft is indeed laughable, and the “civil society” doesn’t know what it is actually trying to achieve. I believe in change from within at the individual level, without which no laws can ever succeed… cos the corrput will always find a loophole anyhow.

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      Definitely ‘change starts from within”

      • Titiksha

        Hi. I liked your approach. I also have to speak against the motion i.e, “Jan Lokpal Bill”.
        I totally agree with all four points but i did not understand the last one. I wonder if you could explain it further. Also, can I please get deeper insights of the topic, so that I can write a good debate.
        Thanks
        Titiksha
        :)

        • admin

          You can see the next post I wrote, it has a few links.

          You can also, see the comment thread or try this portals. centerright.in, sabhlokcity.in, satyamevajayate.org, indianliberals.com

  • satish mardur

    I agree with what you said only if Government’s version of Lokpal Bill gets passed. If you try and see the differences between the Jan Lokpal and Governments versions you will find answers to all these questions. People dont like to pay bribes, but do so out of helplessness. The Jan Lokpal Bill tries to address the issue of corruption from within framework of the system/constitution. It creates a strong anti-corruption Law. It also defines a way to convict/prosecute the corrupt people and also recover the losses to ex-checker from them.
      I must say, I strongly disagree with your views.

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      Sure, you disagreement is accept here. Can you let me know, what prevents a lokpal official from becoming corrupt?

      • vipul bhasin

        firstly, its a very transparent procedure to select the lokpal.. firstly by the search comiittee then by the selection comiittee, comprising of CJI, CJ of HC, CEC. so ofcourse the best will made to the lokpal seat after this hardcore filteration..

        secondly, jsut want a answer from u, if the CJI found to be corrupt, can u do anything to expel him.. iif CAG found to b corupt, what all can u do to remove him?? nothing..

        but my friend, there is the provision in the lok pal bill to file a complaint against the lokpal, n investigation will undergo and if he is found guilty he will be thrown out of the office, straight to the jail, with criminal charges over his head.

        thirdly, nw there must be a quest. popping in ur mind, that how will come to knw that the lok pal has become corrupt.. so here the solution for it, on the monthly basis, lokpal will updated all the cases being dealt in a month and the pending cases and the time required to deal with them. if there a window of suspicion over him, then the complaint can be registerd.

        • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

          “secondly, jsut want a answer from u, if the CJI found to be corrupt, can u do anything to expel him.. iif CAG found to b corupt, what all can u do to remove him?? nothing..”

          I believe in reducing state size and power. CAG and CJI and the politicians for that matter do not have much power, then they can’t misuse it. Instead the power should rest with the people at the micro level.

          “on the monthly basis, lokpal will updated all the cases being dealt in a month and the pending cases and the time required to deal with them. if there a window of suspicion over him, then the complaint can be registerd.”

          Who is going to review the Lokpal? and Who are you going to register the complain with?

          It will always boil down to a basic problem of ‘who is going to watch the guards guarding the people’ and who is going to watch those guards?
          The only solution is to remove power from the hands of the state and hand it over to the people so that they cant abuse it

  • Rahul Gautam

    Hey Aditya,
    I too disagree with the methods adopted by the Civil Society.
    I believe in curing the disease but not in the manner as Civil Society wants it to be.I assume the reasons you have pointed out are in order of merit and if thats the case I strongly feel that the 4th pt (Undermining the Democracy) should be on top of the list. Thats the sole and the strongest reason why I and many others don’t support the Civil Society.

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      Yeah, they are somewhat in the order of merit. So would you have supported them has they done it democratically?

      • Rahul Gautam

        Atleast I would have given their ideas a serious thought had they done (or if in future) democratically. Going b/w the ppl, showcasing their views on various other issues through their manifesto – I as a concerned citizen would have taken them seriously.
        As of now, I find them a bunch of self-proclaimed righteous people who want to alter the fundamentals of our governance our system. In truth we need a few reforms only keeping the fundamentals of the system the same – and amending the constitution is the prerogative of the Parliament alone, is one of them. 

        • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

          Definitely! The fundamentals should not tempered with. :)

          And I appreciate the way you are open to ideas and new thoughts without prejudice. :)

  • http://www.ideas.techiemonk.com techiemonk

    My point of view:

    “1. Cut out licensing, permits and stupid rules that the state imposes on
    us and no one will need to bribe any officials to get their work done.”

    This will bring anarchy in the system at a large scale this idea is too lame to be accepted by any civilized country .

    “2.People bribe to circumnavigate rules.”

    This presumption seems without any practical ground as in India a large no. of corruption is taking place for getting the lawful works done like ration card ,passport, etc..

    “3.Ask their followers to stop paying bribes for the next one year. ”
    It will be serious breach of duty towards the nation we can’t let others pay bribe and boast we don’t pay bribes.And this idea fails to address bribe at upper levels.

    “4.if they have the huge support they claim why don’t you contest elections and then bring in the bill?”

    So can we conclude , for each legitimate demand everyone in India needs to contest an election first??

    “5.I don’t think Jan lokpal will and is just a waste of time and resources.”

    Clearly reflects author is having negative approach regarding changes .

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      “This will bring anarchy in the system at a large scale this idea is too lame to be accepted by any civilized country ”

      This lame idea has worked the world over. Just look at HK and it has worked wonders. Look at Singapore. You can argue about the size.. but excessive rules haven’t worked anywhere either.

      “This presumption seems without any practical ground as in India a large no. of corruption is taking place for getting the lawful works done like ration card ,passport, etc.”Don’t you think corruption only happens at the low level? What about the the crores of rupees people pay to get past stupid licensing. And also, the lower level corruption is slowly vanishing.. I got all my ID’s without any bribe and I have never been asked by a cop for some chai paani.  

      “It will be serious breach of duty towards the nation we can’t let others pay bribe and boast we don’t pay bribes.And this idea fails to address bribe at upper levels.”

      How is it a breach of duty towards nation?

      “So can we conclude , for each legitimate demand everyone in India needs to contest an election first??”

      Legitimacy is relative and no for demanding change you don’t have to contest elections but you do have to get elected before calling yourself a representative of the people and before you can hold an elected body to ransom.

      “Clearly reflects author is having negative approach regarding changes .” 

      😀 I cant help but just smile at that. 

      • http://www.ideas.techiemonk.com techiemonk

        “world over ”
        Please explain ..

        “I got all my
        ID’s without any bribe and I have never been asked by a cop for some
        chai paani.  ”

        So what ?? In a welfare state duty is to help the poorest fellow to get his rights with an ease . You can’t ignore him and his troubles And after getting in IIT which is runned by tax payers money which includes 84 lakh + people who are below poverty line ignoring their plight is breach of duty towards nation..

        “but you do have to get elected before calling yourself
        a representative of the people and before you can hold an elected body
        to ransom.”

        Such a immature comment that it makes me laugh 😀

        Representation doesn’t require  any certificate the masses are evidence and witness !!

        • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

          “Please explain ..”
          I just did, Hong Kong and Singapore.

          “So what ?? In a welfare state duty is to help the poorest fellow to get his rights with an ease . You can’t ignore him and his troubles And after getting in IIT which is runned by tax payers money which includes 84 lakh + people who are below poverty line ignoring their plight is breach of duty towards nation..”

          First of all I am not in IIT but in IIIT and no it is not run by tax payers money. Second of all, I am against welfare states. But giving people an access to their rights isn’t a monopoly of welfarism but is something that every system tries to do. 

          “Representation doesn’t require  any certificate the masses are evidence and witness !!”
          It does, in a democracy it does. And PS: where are the masses? I went to Anna’s demonstration at Raj ghat and your so called masses were not there unless this nation is made up of just a few thousands

          • http://www.ideas.techiemonk.com techiemonk

            First of all sorry for IIT remark but any ways whatever we enjoy is also due to tax payers money indeed !

            Hong Kong and Singapore = world over ??

            Democracy = Welfare state ,so your philosophy of democracy gets bit weired !!

          • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

            “First of all sorry for IIT remark but any ways whatever we enjoy is also due to tax payers money indeed !”

            True we do. That is why I am against taxes.

            “Hong Kong and Singapore = world over ??”

            Since when did we get stuck on literals? I always look forward to your comments and appreciate your views. So, I’ll take back my words about world over. So, it’s worked in some countries where it has been implemented

            “Democracy = Welfare state ,so your philosophy of democracy gets bit weired !!”

            Did I say that?

  • http://twitter.com/Neetish Neetish

    Similar arguments were given against RTI’s effectiveness, but then it has helped unearth so many scams, that with so little awareness so far .

    Dont understand how a Lokpal, which essentially aims to make the Govt( elected representatives as well as public servants) accountable adds any law for the general public, in fact it makes it a lot simpler.

    bribing isnt the only form of corruption, A raja and kalmadi didnt go asking for bribes , janlokpal infact focuses on deadlines for common man’s words .

    contesting elections and becoming a politician is an amusing suggestion to those who are campaigning to make politicians accountable .

    “Those who think it cant be done, shouldnt comment on those who are at least trying to do ” ancient proverb slightly modified .

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

      “Similar arguments were given against RTI’s effectiveness, but then it has helped unearth so many scams, that with so little awareness so far .”
      I can’t say if thats true coz I didn’t say such a thing about RTI. But do share some links  if some center right people did say such a thing.
      “Dont understand how a Lokpal, which essentially aims to make the Govt( elected representatives as well as public servants) accountable adds any law for the general public, in fact it makes it a lot simpler.”It adds a layer of officials to the system. Firstly, it is going to add more fiscal burden to  the budget, the state will try to finance it by printing more money and this causing more inflation.

      To answer your question about how it will increase the complexity of the system. Look at it this way. Right now you have 3 babus who you need to approach to get work done (lets say get a permit) now you will have to approach 4, the new guy being the lokayukt. And who is to say that he or she will not start taking bribes?”contesting elections and becoming a politician is an amusing suggestion to those who are campaigning to make politicians accountable”Don’t become a politician if you don’t want to. Get people’s mandate, come to power, implement Lokpal and leave. Hows that? There should be a legitimate display of support and that is through democracy. “”Those who think it cant be done, shouldnt comment on those who are at least trying to do ” ancient proverb slightly modified .”If by ‘it’ you mean ‘eradicating corruptio’ then I don’t think you are talking about me.

      • Anonymous

        As u have said abt taking mandate and then leave seems impractical who will give u mandate becoz most population is illiterate on gov policies that how it is benefiting or harming them,  they don’t adequate access by any form of media. Policies they understand are casteism & regionalism which is fed to them by politicians.At district level businessmen have their own interests they will make contacts with MLA that surely will be the biggest gunda of their area irrespective of any party, and how that person becomes gunda because he is plundering money from various gov schemes . Votes are bought, pay voters get the vote  for any party, so where will an honest man will stand. Once again i have to say most of our citizens do not have adequate knowledge of policies and their intricacies & loop holes so they must be guided by knowledgeable & trust worthy persons like kejariwal to show us way, instead of drawing theoretical inferences from constitution and beating chest that MLA, MP’S are people’s representative,yes they are representatives of people who don’t have any any perception of their own. Till the time indian population dosen’t becomes mature enough especially at rural level where the maximum population resides strong system or laws should be brought in otherwise scams will keep on happening under our nose and we will keep saying i am part of world’s largest democracy.

        • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

          “Till the time indian population dosen’t becomes mature enough especially at rural level where the maximum population resides”

          I hope you realise what you just said. I don’t see how this judgement is made and also how come you have a moral high ground. Also, even if someone is making a mistake (in this case the common man i.e. according to you), what right does anyone else have to impose their choices and opinions on others?

          • Anonymous

            so ur implication is that corruption should go on til the time public gets literate, and billions should have no accountability and the people about whom u are talking is a judge of supreme court, an ips officer, an IIT ian, a gandhian and they dont have a single allegation of corruption, so my dear friend they carry some weight. Many intellectuals have believed in their draft. Their is a standing committee in which views are taken irrespective of that a person is not an elected representative, aruna roy has given her views many times and they have been accepted in formulating RTI draft which counters ur view that only parliament can impose their views, secondly i feel that some of their points cannot be fit so a common consensus can be derived with others on this issue, but to discard their intellect totally will be too harsh and foolish. So again i would like to say that we cannot wait for that long to get our people mature till our country becomes Egypt and Libiya of today. If their will be an early brake on corruption policies can be implemented in a more transparent way in order to increase literacy and to reduce population, which will give country a breather and that will help make Indian population mature more quickly than closing our eyes and waiting for eternity.      

          • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

            “so ur implication is that corruption should go on til the time public gets literate, and billions should have no accountability”

            That implication is yours and not mine. I don’t believe that the people of India are fools.

            “and the people about whom u are talking is a judge of supreme court, an ips officer, an IIT ian, a gandhian and they dont have a single allegation of corruption, so my dear friend they carry some weight. Many intellectuals have believed in their draft.”

            Its time we stop believe the self appointed intellectuals and start thinking ourselves. Anyways, just for your satisfaction, I have listed some ‘intellectuals’ who are against Anna and are equally qualified if not better to make their judgement.

            http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/08/01/angry-with-iac/

            http://blog.offstumped.in/2011/04/05/anna-hazares-misguided-fast/

            http://therodinhoods.com/xn/detail/6328457%3ATopic%3A41405

            ” If their will be an early brake on corruption policies can be implemented in a more transparent way in order to increase literacy and to reduce population, which will give country a breather and that will help make Indian population mature more quickly than closing our eyes and waiting for eternity.”Things are moving.. but let me explain your logic with an example.There is a fire burning and you ask me for water, I say that it will be here in a while..but you don’t want to wait. Instead some ‘intellectuals’ give you kerosene . you put it on the fire saying.. ‘atleast something is going to happen’That kerosene is Janlokpal bill and fire is corruption.. Now take your stand. And, if you get time. Do go through the articles mentioned

          • Anonymous

            ok we should set aside this lok pal issue do u agree that their should be accountability in our system, so what can be the ways for accountability, how can it be set up.I want to know ur point of view on that. 

            secondly, BJP has made  lobby with congress which are 2 major parties in centre then i ask u who is going to bring concrete laws because corruption is on both sides. ur take on this

             Lastly ur assumed time frame in which accountability can be set to its highest levels  in India. Options 50 years, 150 years, or till India becomes Libya, given that following the same set of sacred laws as if made by God himself propagated by some.

          • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com Aditya Kumar Nayak

            1.Yes accountability should be there. And we already have that in the form of democracy, just coz people like you and me don’t exercise it, doesn’t mean it doesnt exist.

            2.They didn’t impose themselves on us. We gave them the power. So, if the people want concrete laws… demand them.

            3. India will never become Libya and secondly, as I said before. Democracy is the most supreme accountability mechanism for politicians and for bureaucracy we already have the RTI.
            Hope that is precise and to the point

    • karan chandra

      please you go and file An RTI against coal scam.Then mayb you will soon be extinct from earth. They have made such a weak RTI that so many activists in past died due to it. Well before replying me i advise yout to file an RTI on Coal scam .

  • Lakshay Narula

    are u kiddin me guys ? Don’t you see the whole agenda of Hazare behind the JokePal Bill? Dont you see the fallacy? Dont you see this fight is NOT FOR US. Anna Hazare and Govt they just want the power they just tryna snatch from each other’s hand.Why is Anna Targettin CONGRESS most of the Time? why not BJP why not ABVP? Arent we also corrupted? We pay bribe 100 rs or anything to the policeman etc.. at times to get admission we all do! The Lokpall Bill Says PUNISH THE CORRUPT people. I dont see much amendments refering to PREVENTION of Corruption? HAZARE SUPPORTERS NEED TO REALIZE THAT LAWS ARE NOT MADE IN A WEEK OR MONTH. KHUDA NA KHASTA IF THERE HAPPENS TO BE SOME BOMB BLAST IN RAMLILA GROUND WHOS GONNA TAKE RESPONSIBILITY? and a lot i can tell you…why and how we are DOOMED because of Jokepal bill! Cheers. ..

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  • Kumaranshivam

    your thinking is great but i don’t agree with you. if you have a beter plan to stop corruption then tell………………….

  • vasu

    i don’t agree with your article..there is an old saying is Sanskrit.. YAT RAJA ..TAT PRAJA.. all politicians and higher authorities are mouth of corruption. if they stop getting there feeds.. they will not allow us to do so as-well.. it started like this with congress in power that time and it can only end this way….smaller bribes are negligible and will slowly disappear when leaders doing huge scams, either will not be corrupt or will not be able to do it …Remember people have tendency to follow there leader’s actions..

    • http://www.adityakumarnayak.com AdityaNayak

      It isn’t a point of disagreement as I see it. Some people like to follow, while others like to make change themselves. It isn’t as if one side is better than the other.

      I for one would rather change myself rather than wait for the system to to change.

  • http://yogesh0506@yahoo.com WiseBanyanTree

    Each of your views are amusing but far from truth. Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible.

    Follow me on twitter @WiseBanyanTree and see if you can gather some wisdom.

  • shabneek kaur

    thanks for your blog . I wanted some material for my debate on jan lokpal bil.This really had helped me a lot and i hope that i will win….

  • vinishi sinha

    Hey, Adtiya
    I really liked your blog. It contains many reasonable things. I also belive that jan lokpal bill is not a solution . Kyunki baad mein if it get fail to achieve its aim … I am damn sure people will think ” india ka kuch nahi ho sakta”.
    Seriously the blog is amazing …
    Well i’ve written a blog on “IS THIS MY INDIA “

  • Shubhansh Agrawal

    Nice thoughts, i totally agree that after this bill there would be bribe at 2 levels. In order to remove such a thing the government should reduce these officers and adopt what most developed nations like the US have adopted, do your work on your own. Many a times in a bank or say passport office the officers create a nuisance by asking the customer to roam one desk to another n I definitely feel i cud hav done that work on my own rather than asking for this form, that stamp that bill etc.,

  • http://www.google.com kush garg

    you must first read jan lokpal bill…..your views are wrong….you will not have to double bribes…..instead if officials donot do your work within limited time set they will be fined and that will be given to the person whose work had been delayed…….i guess you might be from existing corrupt political party or linked with them……

  • kushgarg

    further refer to singapore anti corruption department that is similar to jan lokpall bill………and they had curb corruption from their country……china is also in one of such countries